our birds are wild yet and should not be owned especially by the inexperienced.

My husband is sporting five stitches in the bottom of his lip where Peaches, our M2, bit all the way through. He turned down the three stitches the doctor wanted to put on the inside of his lip.

In my opinion the bite was his fault but I'm not angry about it. I'm always telling him to keep his face away from her and she was really grouchy yesterday, but that's neither here nor there. The wild came out and he was injured. The argument we had was not pretty either.

He's had stitches twice this year because of her and I'm afraid he will reach the end of his tolerance level for my bird. What happens then, I don't know.

M2's are so unpredictable that I don't think you can read them more that part of the time. One minute they are the sweetest bit of fluff you know, the next the wild side comes out and anyone could be very seriously injured. I really believe that they can not be handled in most homes.

I promised this bird six years ago that she would never have to move again. I don't know what I'll do if I have to break that promise. I am thinking about some more workable solutions now including moving her cage and buying a perch I can wheel around from room to room.

My husband is a good man. He is not a bird person though. He's gone above and beyond tolerating my love for these creatures. I just wanted to say that.

Did you want some things to try or are you just venting?


Bev

I'm so sorry Lori, I know Doug is a good man and that you do the very best by all of your birds.

DAMN Lori - I'm sorry. Sorry for hubby, you and Peaches. Every day I am painfully reminded - not always physically but mentally, that birds are simply that - wild creatures - doing the best they can in an unnatural environment (our homes).

Things have been pretty rough around here too for the past few days. Hormones are raging, and frustration (including mine) is high. I have an M2 that is hell bent on building a nest and fighting me every inch of the way because I won't let her. Two G2's that are hell bent on destroying a wall in the familyroom, and a U2 that is hell bent on having his way with my hand, among a list of other smaller, but troublesome behaviors.

It's rare that I feel overwhelmed, but today happens to be one of them. Yesterday I rolled w/the punches, but today well I'm just feeling a bit tired and worn out (thankfully I didn't have to work at all today).

I'm sure that your husband's lip is sore and I know that your heart is hurting Lori. Hang in there my friend!

Bev, I'm not asking for advice, not even really venting. Just a warning for anyone who is considering a pretty M2.

Sometimes some people need a reminder. Nothing in particular. I've had birds for over ten years and I know that there are things that can be worked on.

Janet, Peaches has had me in trouble all week. Last Sunday she ate Dougs brand new wireless controller for his brand new playstation 3. I replaced that $60, without him knowing and then she ate the new one on Tues and he found out about that one. She's been trying to take the glass shower doors off the tub. And she's eating everything in sight.

I hate this time of the year.

OK so really what you need is a good stiff drink. LOL

Bev

Oh my!!!! I don't know how you handle that on top of everything else Lori. If I had a partner giving me grief on top of everything else - well let's just say that wouldn't be a pretty site either - LOL!!



Or two, or three!

I want a drink. I'm going down Vegas way next week to visit my mom. Drinks come free as long as I sit at a machine, lol! I really need that week off.

As I was thinking about what to fix the birds for dinner it made me stop and think. What is hardest of all is knowing that no matter how much and how well we do for our birds, it just isn't enough. Because as Lori's said And that folks, is the nuts and bolts of it all!!

HERE HERE!!

I've often had a thought like that run through my mind. If it had been me who was the "chosen one", and Baby attacked my husband, I highly doubt he would have had the patience to go through what I have with her. I'm so sorry that happened (again) to your husband. I vividly remember the bite I got on my lip from Baby. (I should have gotten stitches, but didn't.) She got hold of that lip, and as I pulled her away from my face, I remember seeing what looked like my lip acting just like silly putty. It seemed to stretch out for a mile!



I believe you're right. They never should have been in this position (captivity) in the first place.

Ever year, hormonal season makes all of us nuts. Thank goodness we have each other to commiserate with.

Let us all commend ourselves for loving and giving the best of care to birds who would at this point in time, not stand a chance of a good long life being let free in the wild. Are our homes ideal situations? No. But we are doing the very best we can for them.

Would they live as long in the wild, given the predators, illness, adverse weather conditons, lack of food? No. They stand a much better chance of longer lives with us. Is it a fair trade-off? Is it selfish on our parts? Maybe.

But these birds HAVE been caught, been bred, and now they are in our care. We do the very best by them as well as we can. We have kept them out of abusive, heinous situations by offering them our homes and as much freedom as is possible in our individual situations.

Is it hard to keep them from being hormonal? Yes. It's nigh on impossible, even the with use of non-invasive treatments which may or may not be successful. What do we do? Live with it, invest in a vineyard. We all went into this with our eyes wide open. Cry on each other's shoulders. The alternative is relegating our birds to a home which might not be so understanding and loving. A home which might pass the bird on and on and at the worst, subject it to cruelty.

Is it hard to keep their destructive natures in check? And from attacks? Well, yes and no. If affordable, build a flight area or get the largest cage possible and only allow out of cage time which is supervised. It will benefit both of you. The bird KNOWS when you are angry and frustrated when it destroys things. If anything can confuse a bird, it's giving mixed signals. Mommy let's me out but then she gets pissed when I do something which is normal for me to do. Then why does she let me out??

If your bird is used to being free will it adjust to being back in a cage except for allotted times? YES Explain to it, it DOES understand. But it takes a lot of perseverence and strength on your part. The rewards in the end are indescribable. You will have reached an understanding and you both will be happy with each other. They are NOT in the wild. Yes it sucks big time, but things are different, adjustments have to be made THEY ARE NOT STUPID, they understand.

Knowing your birds moods and hormonal periods is of the highest priority. Don't f*ck with them, leave them alone, their grumpiness is the biggest warning. They are trying to tell you - leave me alone!!!

Birds NEED a flock leader. YOU are the flock leader. You are not the doting aunt who spoils the bird. YOU ARE THE FLOCK LEADER. Unless you establlish this relationship, you WILL have problems.

You are not to feel sorry for the bird because it's in captivity. YOU ARE DOING THE VERY BEST YOU CAN DO under the circumstances.

Please, please people, give yourselves credit!!! You have all sacrificed so much to make as much of a difference in the captive bird world as you can. IT's one of the most difficult things to do, loving a bird.

But we chose to do it, and we do, do it well!! Every single one of us.

This is in response to a couple of phone calls I have gotten, I hope you all will know how much you do and how absolutely wonderful you all are because it's NOT EASY loving a bird.

Thanks for the reality check Carol - I knew our own 'Mighty Mouse" would ariive to save the day! LOL! If my phone line hadn't been on again/off again all day, I'd have been on those phone calls you received today. It's been the same w/my internet too but since they are both digital service from the same IP, when one goes they both do.

Carol, I also want to thank you for solidifying the decisions and conclusions I came to today. I did have somewhat of a melt down today, but a sad, feeling of uselessness one - not anger. I am concerned about Echo producing another egg and her hormonal behaviors, but I know that this too shall pass (for this time), and I just have to ride the wave. Concering Max and JoJo, I thought about my options and knew that I had to do something or eventually I'd have two G2's completely eating themselves out of my frame house. I kept a watchful eye after I fed them dinner and when they both went in their cage to eat, I closed the door behind them. And I told them why. I turned my desk light on, which is right beside their cage and I haven't
heard a peep out of either of them since, and going on 2 hours. They've been busy eating, playing with toys and engaging in some mutual preening. Right now Max is taking a cat nap.

I will let them out tomorrow morning and since it is a "work" day, I'll be in the familyroom most of the time monitoring their shananigans. Now after a night or two of this, they may wise up and decide not to go in their cage for dinner, until I"m out of sight, but I'll cross that bridge when I
get to it. Eventually they will eat - LOL!!! It's not a decision I wanted to make, but one that needed to be made. The boundaries needed to be established again. And they have one another company - that is one thing I will never take away from them.

I don't know what I'd do without all of you and I"m glad that I don't have to find that out!!!

(((Janet))) Oddly enough,my comments were not directed at anyone in particular, not even Lori who started this thread. I had gotten some calls from some pretty upset people who were just in hysterics because they thought they were not good bird parents and they had to be reminded that it is hormonal season and that they had allowed the birds to control them rather than vice versa. And yes, "control" is the right word, for anyone who owns a cockatoo knows this fits.

The love that brings people and birds together might also be the love that destroys the relationships. That's why I always emphasize don't feel guilty that your bird is not flying free!!! It translates, sometimes, in over-indulging your already manipulative, highly intelligent bird, and that ends up in both you and your bird being frustrated.

It even applies to the little and medium birds, it's just with bigger birds, it's harder to handle because, well, they are BIGGER.

After having said the same thing couple times today and realizing that there might be others out there, feeling guilty, feeling that were not doing enough, I thought, you are wrong. You are all loving people, be content with doing your very best. It's all you have and the most you can give.

I might sound harsh to some people about having to be the flock leader, but it's what the bird's expect in nature. You can lavish love but also dispense leadership.

Have faith in yourselves, you are all TERRIFIC in God's eyes.

Great thread, great post, Java. This is a very difficult time for a lot of us, and sometimes it seems as though our best just isn't good enough. Hormonal season will pass!

Carol

I second a big THANK YOU for the reality check!

I'm feeling his pain...literally....Lookie what Bella (U2) did to me today:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/ ... ITE003.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/ ... ITE002.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/ ... ITE001.jpg

Hit a nerve, I went to my knees, took my breath away, I almost puked, it's been 6 hours and it's still weeping.

Swelling and bruising to follow!

UGH!

Mavis~

PS YES HB you can make copies for your file!

Liisa you are one of my inspirations in this whole flock leader bit. Some of the most enlightening discussions I have had, have been with you, beginning with years ago regarding our mutual methods. That is to say, let birds be birds - as much as your individual housing and environment allows, and also provide them with the flock leader which is essential in birddom. They crave and need the leadership. It seems to be the one thing that really works.

I am not an old sage (though I am old), I cannot take full credit for my posts for they are a culmination of thoughts, advice, sharing of methods from a bunch of you all. Experience shared is so valuable, whether good or bad, because we are all learning something new every day.

Edit: Good lord, Mavis just as I was typing this you were posting your pics. I'm so sorry this has happened!! Methinks we should all invest in a vineyard, the birds could use the aged grapevines and we all could use the vino. Let's think of a label.

p.s. during this hormonal time, don't get your hair cut, your hair dyed, change your nail polish, get new glasses, get a new boyfriend or husband, etc etc etc !!!!!

LOL, about the PS java!

Mavis, ouch! Peaches got me below the thumb once and my thumb was numb for weeks. My husband wrist is always full of sores like that from that bird. I also have scars all over my wrists. And yes, the pain is enough to bring you to your knees.

What other animal could we possibly have such love/hate relationships with??

TY Mavis. I'll make myself a note to link to your pics on the page - and most likely this conversation as well. I can relate to the numb thumb syndrome, and the lower arm scars spoken of above as well. I was just telling my human Doc today (drew blood) how awful I am about needles. Those make my knees weak, but I can anticipate, and take, a Cockatoo bite easier than a little needle. That's what love will do!